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 Post subject: Agency Tours V Going it alone.
Post Number:#1  PostPosted: 12 Feb 2012 18:46 
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  • The Cattle Market.

      Because of the nature of the agency tours some men seem to think that the women that they are meeting are only there for entertainment and such an attitude almost guarantees that the women will do what they can to take advantage of them and further they will return home empty handed.


  • The Attitudes.

    The women
      It needs to be understood that many of the women that attend these agency meetings (some only attend because they are paid to attend) expect to be treated as a commodity and their attitude is quite likely to reflect that.


    The men
      Whether we (as men) are willing to acknowledge it or not.
      It s quite normal for us when confronted with a group of women "lined up against a wall" that seem that they are there for the "picking" we subconsciously do tend to denigrate those women and think of them as items on a supermarket shelf.


  • Going alone.

    When an individual travels on his own he can devote all of his attention to the lady(s) without having to concern himself that there maybe other guys in the group that may be competing for the attention of the same lady. furthermore the lady is not going to be distracted by other guys trying to get her attention.


    Another advantage is that there has been previous communication and the potential awkward issues will already have been resolved.



Taking into account all of the above in my view some of the questions that must be asked are:


  • Because it is most likely that there will be a time limit on the visit is it not better that the initial "Ice" has been broken.

  • Is it not much easier to start a relationship when the initial contact is not clouded with potential negativity?



Caveat
I must state that I have never been on an agency tour but I do know a few guys that have been on such tours and this post has been written summing up various conversations that I have had the guys that have been on tours.



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 Post subject: Re: Agency Tours V Going it alone.
Post Number:#2  PostPosted: 14 Feb 2012 00:44 
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I have been on 4 tours so I do think I have some first hand knowledge on the subject. You made some good points but some I would disagree with.

Let me make a few points. Tours are not what they were 10-15 years ago. Back then you could go on a big agency tour and in one trip come back engagaged to a beautiful woman who would marry you and stay married at least until she had her green card. Back in the late 1990's the economy in the FSU sucked and women were desperate to leave and would grab hold of any guy with the cash to get her out of the country. The economic factors are not so important these days. In those days the tours could go to places like Moscow and Kiev and there would be tons of women who wanted out of poverty and away from the worries about their future.

Second point. The tours we hear most about are what I call big agency tours. You said women were paid to attend. I don't believe that happens at all. I would say that a very high percentage of the really attractive women are not looking for husbands they have learned that there will be a room full of guys mostly making their first trip the the FSU who have been brainwashed with a lot of bull about old fashioned wives who don't care about age or looks and just want to make a happy family with someone a little younger than their daughter (not that I should talk) So they are there to empty the wallets of these suckers and they are quite good at it.

The big agency tours I went on were done by European Connections which no longer does tours and has been sold to an outfit in Canada. At the time I went they were a 25 million dollar company. The other big agencies such as AFA and Anastasia are about the same. They advertise in newspapers and even on billboards on the street for women. The sincere women who come really don't like the meat market atmosphere and feel like they are for sale. The beautiful women get tons of interest and the average women who are sincere and may have ridden a train all night to be there may not even have one person talk to them.

The last tour I went on was by a small agency, Jack Bragg's "FirstDream" Jack's tours are very different. The women are not recruited off the street but are either invited by the men or sent by a small agency that knows their women personally. Most of the women are very sincere. Jack limits his tours to 12 men and goes mostly to the smaller towns in Ukraine. I was quite happy with his tour and would recommend them to anyone, particularly to someone making his first trip to the FSU and even more so to someone who has not travelled overseas.

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 Post subject: Re: Agency Tours V Going it alone.
Post Number:#3  PostPosted: 14 Feb 2012 07:43 
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From Ukraine With Love

On another thread we were talking about the AFA tours in Ukraine...... "Mail Order Bride" that Dawn Porter made for C4 in UK couple of years ago.

Watch a small clip on youtube and you may find the rest of the program there too.



Now the American ABC channel has made their own program, following the AFA tours in Odessa.



[biggrin.gif] .


You may also read about this subject here too: viewtopic.php?p=4725#p4725


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 Post subject: Re: Agency Tours V Going it alone.
Post Number:#4  PostPosted: 15 Feb 2012 18:32 
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Turbo

The truth of the matter is that the large Dating agencies and sites (AFA or Anastasia and Elena's Models) are there to make money, mostly from the various services they provide to the clients, translations, flowers, membership, Tours etc and if you are not astute in these practices you may end up paying a lot of money and nothing to show for ...... The tours are just a jolly holiday trip with everything organised for you including the entertainment from some very attractive ladies, who either get paid for it or use the gatherings for a nice free night out including some very expensive dinners.

Jack's tours are different to the fact that he makes sure the ladies in question are not, scammers, pro-daters or there for the fun only.

Now as you know I would never have gone in any tour, as I prefer the DIY method!

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 Post subject: Re: Agency Tours V Going it alone.
Post Number:#5  PostPosted: 15 Feb 2012 21:38 
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Turbo,

I am quite curious about a certain point that you made, "particularly to someone making his first trip to the FSU and even more so to someone who has not travelled overseas" and the question that I ask is.
Do you think that someone who has never travelled overseas stands a chance of maintaining a long term relationship with a foreign woman? (and especially a lady from the FSU)

As I see it the chances of sustaining a relationship for someone who has never been travelled outside of his country should be classified as "mission impossible".

I would personally rate a relationship between an FSU lady and someone who has never before travelled to the FSU somewhere between nil to very, very slim.

The chances of someone who has never been to the FSU but has interacted with Russians in general being able to maintain a long term relationship with an FSU lady might just increase to very slim.

Of course this is my take and I do of course welcome different views.

With regards to the differences between the FSU today and 10 - 15 years ago yes the differences are vast, today most of the ladies that I know (friends of my wife) are not really interested in leaving Russia, some have even gone as far as to say "I only want a foreign boyfriend if he will come to Russia".

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 Post subject: Re: Agency Tours V Going it alone.
Post Number:#6  PostPosted: 17 Feb 2012 05:33 
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Rasboinik wrote:
Turbo,

I am quite curious about a certain point that you made, "particularly to someone making his first trip to the FSU and even more so to someone who has not travelled overseas" and the question that I ask is.
Do you think that someone who has never travelled overseas stands a chance of maintaining a long term relationship with a foreign woman? (and especially a lady from the FSU)



Absolutely I belive that. First off I know a lot of the members here are from the other side of the pond from me. Someone not having traveled to other countries might sound strange to you. Traveling to another country there is about like traveling to another state here.

The first couple I met from the FSU were friends of my first Fiancee. Bob and Oxana met on his first trip overseas and they had been happily married for 4 years. One guy I met on my first EC tour was from Michigan and had never been overseas. The tour was a bust for him but when I first joined Elena's models I heard from a couple of hundred women the first week and sent him about 30 of my rejects. That was 2005 and he married a gal from Moldova that I sent him and they have been married now for 6 years. Of the 4 friends my wife has most all of the men had never traveled overseas before meeting their wives. They have all been married for quite a while now. Actually of all the guys I have met personally that have Russian wives the only one who traveled overseas a much before meeting their wife was jb. I don't see it as a bit of a problem.

Rasboinik wrote:

With regards to the differences between the FSU today and 10 - 15 years ago yes the differences are vast, today most of the ladies that I know (friends of my wife) are not really interested in leaving Russia, some have even gone as far as to say "I only want a foreign boyfriend if he will come to Russia".


We all talk about Russian women and Ukrainian women but when I go on VisaJourney which is a site where there are lots of discussions about Fiancee and spousal visas you realize that Russian women are just a very small minority of the people falling in love internationally. There are far more from Canada and England, and all over. I am sure women in Canada and England are not desperate to leave their country. I do think some see marrying someone from another country as something adventurous and different and it has a bit of a mistique. I think love has no boundries. Even though many RW say they don't have a desire to leave their country there are still hundreds of thousands of women who join Elenas and other sites where the goal is to do just that. This dog ain't dead yet despite what Andrew says on another site.

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 Post subject: Re: Agency Tours V Going it alone.
Post Number:#7  PostPosted: 17 Feb 2012 05:49 
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wiz wrote:
Turbo

The truth of the matter is that the large Dating agencies and sites (AFA or Anastasia and Elena's Models) are there to make money,

Jack's tours are different to the fact that he makes sure the ladies in question are not, scammers, pro-daters or there for the fun only.

Now as you know I would never have gone in any tour, as I prefer the DIY method!


The goal of most business is to make money and I agree that it also applies to AFA, Elenas and Jack.

I agree that the ladies on Jack's tours are generally not scammers unlike the big agency tours. I am sure some go just for a night out, a party and a chance to share an experience with some of the girl friends they go with but for most in the back of their mind they hope to meet a good man.

Since I had been on three big agency tours before going with Jack I had something to compare with. I will say I had a blast on the big agency tours as I did with Jack's tour. As you know I went on Jacks tour mostly in the hopes my son would find a good woman and going with him was about the only way to get him to go. Actually since I had some experience my opinion of going myself was about the same as yours. Before I hopped on the plane I personally had no interest in going for my own search and would have much prefered to just do my own thing like you wanted to do. Actually I was quite impressed with Jack's tour and learned a lot even though I had made tons of trips already. Jack shares a lot of experience with the guys on his tour and the education is worth the price of admission. I met more amazing women on Jack's trip than I had in dozens of trips on my own. As you know two weeks after Jack's tour I made the trip to Barnaul to meet the wonderful woman who became my wife but I am sure if that trip had not worked out I would have been back in Ukraine persuing one of the ladies from Jack's tour but I am just not sure which of the ones that would have been.

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 Post subject: Re: Agency Tours V Going it alone.
Post Number:#8  PostPosted: 18 Feb 2012 07:41 
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Turbo

I agree with your comments and yes I remember your past experiences with these companies and their tours.

I think the Tours are a good but expensive way to meet many women from the FSU and if you are lucky you may come across the right woman and click. [wink.gif]

Over the years I have not heard bad reports about Jack's tours and your comments support this view. I guess that Jack makes sure no scammers join the group and as the numbers or participants is small, then a man has more chances to meet a good woman.

[thumbs.gif]

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 Post subject: Re: Agency Tours V Going it alone.
Post Number:#9  PostPosted: 19 Sep 2012 14:50 
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Inside View of Russian Dating from Australian Perspective


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 Post subject: Re: Agency Tours V Going it alone.
Post Number:#10  PostPosted: 19 Sep 2012 16:55 
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True Stories of Mail Order Brides from TV Show
Secret Lives of Women - Ukrainian Style



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